Cheques are amazing - unless you bank with monzo of course, in which case they get lost 
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BlimeyâŚâŚ never thought Iâd see that writ (unless I was back in, say, 18something 
).
But - despite the lack of supporting information - I rather like it. It has a ring about it. 
Not in my experience.
As a more advanced/developed economy than China, we can operate a system that relies on NFC for convenience as almost everyone here does have an NFC-supporting phone.
Ironically, those that donât are likely to be using a cheap Chinese handset!
It is also closer to the analogy of contactless card use, so easier to understand. Plus, I come back to the point that QR codes just are clunky. You donât want to have to get an app up to pay, or need to confirm the amount in the app before it is processed. Itâs much better to have payment as a system function.
Iâll second that - Iâd much rather receive a cheque from someone who doesnât use digital banking than cash.
Iâve said this before, but I think cash could probably be replaced before cheques are ever completely phased-out. A lot of the classic things which people use cash for (paying back someone who owes them money, etc) could easily be replaced with cheques.
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To achieve total adoption we actually do have to include the poors to, you know
You donât have to. On Android you can set QuickPay to automatically pull up applications like LinePay/WePay
On iOS you can use shortcuts (at the minute) but eventually, as legislation is showing, Apple will be forced to unlock their payment stack.
Even better, we might be able to scan it from the camera and have it automatically launch [Payment App]. It certainly works for other apps as long as the QR code includes a URL.
And for clunky, whatâs clunky about entirely eliminating people overcharging you?
You get to see all the payment details and agree to it on the spot. Itâs great. Iâd urge you to look at some videos of WePay being used in China. Itâs popular for a reason.
I donât think anyone in the U.K. doesnât know what a QR code is?
This is actually a benefit to the consumer, no mischarging and waiting 3 days for the balance to be refunded.
Itâs still easier to look at the displayed amount on the card terminal (as now) and then pay via NFC, itâs all in one motion. I know itâs still potentially quite quick via QR Code, but nowhere near as quick as itâs a multi-step process. Presumably there is also a need for mobile data, as itâs internet-based. NFC works offline.
I also think there is a benefit to having card companies act as intermediaries, as you have the ability to dispute transactions, get refunded for fraudulent transactions and global acceptance from a safe and secure EMV standard.
The other benefit to NFC is the fact itâs technology shared with contactless cards, so cards are always an option for anybody who doesnât have or doesnât want to use a smartphone.
I agree, NFC is a much better solution.
I donât think QR codes will ever be able to work as fast - look at train gate lines. The difference in speed between people entering using an NFC pass vs. scanning the QR code on their e-tickets is ridiculous.
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Yes until youâre at a dodgy merchant or abroad and they take your card to tap and you have to rely on the honour system?
NFC works online but card terminals donât ! So itâs not relevant. Everyone with a phone has mobile data.
Every single payments platform ever develops itâs own protections and and payment platform has to conform with our legislative protections.
Unfortunately we live in a society. If you donât want a phone, move to the woods.
Takes me less than a second to knock through a QR reader at the train station, takes just about a half blink less to do NFC (but thatâs assuming the tube reader doesnât act up, which itâs done quite often). Rarely does a QR reading camera mess up.
QR code scanning is consistently slower than NFC - it is part of the reason why QR scanners were never fitted to the TfL tube gatelines where speed is a requirement. They donât need people faffing about trying to get a QR to scan blocking the gatelines at rush-hour.
Away from transport the foibles of QR scanning can also be seen with scanning of loyalty card apps - rarely is it a good experience.
While Iâm sure youâve honed your phone screen brightness and practiced a perfect scanning technique over a period of years in the hope that a QR payment system will arrive here, 99% of people wonât have done that and wouldnât be interested in doing that. And they donât need to be - because we have NFC widely deployed for payments and it does not suffer from these issues. Thereâs no reason to take a step backwards.
For person-to-person payments Iâm more of a fan of the Natwest PayMe links which use open banking to do the transfer - I wish other banks would do the same thing (and, youâll be pleased to hear it does in fact allow you to generate a QR code too).
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Never, ever, allow your card to be taken out of your possession. Insist on paying yourself, which is even easier if using mobile payment as most people would not ever expect you to hand over your phone.
Also, with modern instant notifications, you would soon know if you had been charged incorrectly and could kick up a fuss before leaving the establishment.
No they donât!
Card terminals do, actually, in certain circumstances work offline for NFC and originally all contactless payments in the U.K. were processed offline. Thatâs now stopped to prevent fraud (party due to a campaign by Martin Lewis).
Anyway, thatâs irrelevant. The point is that the customerâs device can be offline, so they donât need data. That cost burden is on the merchant, as you would expect it to be. What shop has no internet connection?
If it were the other way around, that would be a much more limiting situation.
Your QR code system would essentially be like Faster Payments, only with the details automatically filled in via the detail on the QR code. That would offer effectively zero anti-fraud protection to the consumer, if they needed to dispute or reverse a payment.
In fact, this shows how there is even less need for it. Apart from being a âsolved problemâ, which NFC already does better, point-to-point direct payments for free are basically the Faster Payments network. There is nothing to stop market stalls that wonât pay card fees from using that, they could use a phone or tablet to check the money had arrived before you had left with the goods. Nobody does because itâs much less convenient than NFC, and automating the account details part would only go so far.
Plenty of elderly people donât have a phone and donât see why they should start now. Iâd argue they should get one, but I would also defend their right to a choice. You shouldnât ânot existâ in the eyes of society if you donât have a phone.
Contactless cards are also a good backup if your phone battery runs out or your phone gets stolen and you need to get home, but have a backup card.
Even you admit that NFC is quicker!
Those half-blinks would add up in a long coffee-shop queue, QR codes would be going backwards.
Exactly, and now the rest of the rail network will eventually be moving to NFC too because itâs worked so well in London.
Yes, and this sort of thing appears to already be catching on a bit, further reducing the need to put in sort codes and account numbers manually.
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Well, @Seb , you just made this topic surprisingly interesting at 6.30am. Iâd normally pick this stuff up much later in the day.
Well done indeed - a good read 
(and an all-round good thread).
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Itâs just a thing they do in other countries, you donât really have a choice in the matter. They donât have a reader to bring to you and theyâre not taking you behind the counter / into the back to swipe your card.
The countries that youâd do this in arenât all contactless friendly yet
Kind of place to scam you is also the kind of place to have you beaten up or intimidated into not doing that, or in a country where theyâd have the police arrest you
I can tell you all the major banks (Lloyds, Barclays, etc) donât process offline at all, let alone for NFC.
You connect it to the internet via cable (or on some fancy machines they have WiFi). Offline processing is done with paper and an imprint machine.
It wouldnât, or China, Japan, Taiwan, all would be begging us for NFC. Theyâre not, so it works fine.
People without data use cash, or a card.
Not at all, that would be something based on open banking or the like.
AliPay, LinePay, WePay are all fully fledged payment system with features to help customers if they need it.
We have an E wallet payment system within the U.K. that has this protection even, itâs called PayPal. Greggs accept it as payment, even.
May I remind you, that Visa/MasterCard arenât always there to help you even when your bank advises you wrong (I had a chargeback rejected because my bank told me it was in time but it wasnât. now I have to wait for the FoS. MasterCard isnât footing the bill and the merchant was within the schemeâs right to refuse an out-of-time claim).
They have the choice to not adopt what 90%+ of society has adopted. Itâs called isolation.
If you live in the woods, you donât get the benefits of a city.
If you donât have a phone, you donât get mobile payments.
With the amount of times the tube reader blinks read on my card before working again (and the amount of people who donât have their Apple Pay ready at the gate) I donât believe thereâs anything meaningful delay-wise.
NFC tickets? Will be neat to try. Will they be doing automatic ticket payments too? At the proper prices, not the ÂŁ20 âI forgot to buy a ticketâ rubbish
They all have online-preferring cards now, but offline is usually permitted up to a certain low floor limit.
This applies for transport usage, for example, where contactless is still allowed.
Payment can be taken and authorised, and the batch file of authorisations can be uploaded to the internet later. Presentment then occurs like normal.
Well I didnât know this, although I donât frequent Greggs.
I would guess that uptake is very low, and that probably indicates that there is little demand for such a solution in the U.K.
When I last read about it, the proposal was to allow both contactless pay as you go (like the tube) and also paying for a ticket in advance and associating it with a card number so that presenting your device or physical card with the same number would be akin to presenting the ticket.
Uptake was low for card here until terminals were widespread, same with contactless until MasterCard/Visa encouraged it heavily and eventually forced it
Correlation isnât causation !
Talking about the readers, not the cards.
Yes, with a physical machine. Was the same when we bought our kebab shop (2020).
Yeah I mean like, buying on-time/on-the-train tickets are ÂŁ20 for a regular ÂŁ10 ticket.
I disagree on that. If you offer consumers a free choice of payment options, they will choose which one they prefer.
Most readers are capable of offline processing in an emergency, using the method I just described. Specialist readers in certain environments (such as in-flight, parking machines, etc) certainly are.
Yes, the proposal from the Rail Delivery Group was to allow purchasing of Advance tickets like now, but to replace digital tickets (QR codes) with a system that linked that ticket virtually to a card number. That card number (and associated ticket) would then by identified by the same NFC readers that would work to process the pay-as-you charges.
No one likes 100% of the features of their bank, but most will not open a second to make up that shortfall.